REELSIDE: Matthew Lochner on Superheroes
REELSIDE Episode 106: Superheroes
REELSIDE is a six-part documentary series that explores the creative process with Canadian filmmakers and actors. Follow them as they tell their stories every Thursday on TMN. We covered the first four episodes during the east coast air dates in the early summer and now we’re back with the last—and arguable best—two episodes for the west coast air dates. Because west is best. And we like rhymes.
Everybody wants to be a superhero. There’s no point in denying it because I know that right this second you are deciding what your superhero power would be. And the only reason you’re hesitating is because there are too many good ones to choose from. REELSIDE directors Matthew Lochner and Raj Pannikar decided to explore just that in the second episode they co-directed together.
This episode of REELSIDE is decidedly the most playful of the bunch, with co-director/narrator Matthew going on a personal/spiritual/tattoo-filled/fashionable (seriously, check out his red shorts and polka-dot stripe socks, guys) journey to create his own superhero. Matthew heads to a comic convention to get inspired and meet creative, likeminded fans and that’s where the fun begins: cosplay, actors, creators, weirdos, geeks, nerds, oh my! From talking about the birth of the The Toxic Avenger with creator Lloyd Kaufman to geeking out with Arrow fans and “young stud” Stephen Amell [star of Arrow], Matthew gets advice from the best of the best about creating his own superhero. It even gets deep, guys. When Amell is talking about shooting the first season of Arrow he says, “Find the thing that your superhero will care about and show that to the audience.” And when Matthew asks David Hayter [writer, X-Men] about what the essence of a hero is, Hayter counters, “Well that depends on your definition of ‘hero.’”
Damn. Dammnnnnn.
The episode ends in the most epic of epic ways, with Matthew immortalizing all of the advice he received on his body with a series of tattoos before we see the trailer for his own superhero creation. And if that isn’t bad ass, I don’t know what is.
GeekPr0n: I loved the exchange in your head between you and David Hayter [in the intro]. It made me laugh out loud. It was that extra step of not just talking to him, but setting up a scenario.
Raj Pannikar: With both of these episodes [Sci-Fi and Superheroes] there were some people that we knew before—Graeme Manson and Stephen Amell were both on Rent-a-Goalie—but we’d never met David Hayter or Lloyd Kauffman or Vincenzo. The important thing is that with as much time as they can give us it’s about building a relationship and making them feel at home. It’s not just, “Okay, you’re here for your interview, let’s go,” it’s spending time with these people and I think that ends up paying off. We’d never met David Hayter before. He was late because he got lost in a snow storm on the way to the interview… And he was such a team player because we went back to LA to shoot that comic book scene and he was willing to do anything.
Matthew Lochner: The day he was late too he’d forgotten his cell phone so he found a pay phone.
GP: He found a pay phone?!
ML: Yeah, he called his assistant and then got my address and then finally showed up. He wasn’t paid a thing to do this, we’ve never met this man. After twenty minutes I would’ve been, “Eff this!” He still showed up!
GP: Also, he had his assistants number in his brain. That’s impressive.
ML: In this day and age! That shows a genuine man.
GP: That is a man worth being friends with right there.
GP: Fans—I think the fans of genre and superhero and all that geeky TV and movie stuff are so amazing and what really fuels the genre and I liked hearing that thought from all of those people in the industry in this episode. I love that idea of community around film, and it seems so super unique to that genre. Is that something that attracted you to superhero films?
ML: Let’s not forget that loving comic books or sci-fi in the past, going back before the internet, you were ostracized. Well, maybe not ostracized but you kept it a secret. You would go hang out at the comic book store and that’s where you would find likeminded folk. You were almost afraid to talk about it at school. But the internet is run by these people and now it’s cool to be like this. I’m the biggest Wolverine fan in the world and now there’s Wolverine bedsheets! If you showed me Wolverine bed sheets when I was thirteen I would’ve lost my mind. And it’s not because I was thirteen—I’m still the same excitable person as I was when I was thirteen.
RP: I still have my Star Wars bedsheets.
ML: This is the thing, and not that I don’t love them now, it’s just so oversaturated for me personally. It’s great that it’s all out there but I feel like that little tight club is gone. And now I see Wolverine bedsheets and I actually don’t get excited, really, because there’s X-Men everything.
GP: Marketing has really changed things. I hadn’t thought of that. It’s cool to be a geek now, but that’s because it’s everywhere.
ML: I think we spoke to somebody at one point who touched on the idea that it’s a different culture now. Back then you kind of hid it—it was a hidden little secret. I don’t know really how that relates to your question but it’s been an interesting evolution. Those people who were hiding it before have become the people who are pushing the new people up. And now people playing superheroes are these mega stars—Robert Downey Jr, Stephen Amell—whereas in the past Christopher Reeves played Superman, Michael Keaton played Batman and that’s it, you know.
[At this point the waitress comes to refresh our drinks and we start discussing ice, which is a natural conversation segue, obviously.]
GP: I love crushed ice. I was in a Dairy Queen in Minden and they had crushed ice. I wasn’t going to get a drink at all until I saw this woman with hers and I was all, “Crushed ice?! I need a beverage!”
ML: They sell Christmas trees at the Etobicoke DQ, which I find incredibly bizarre.
RP: Beside it or…?
ML: At it!
GP: Like actually part of Dairy Queen?
ML: Not IN the Dairy Queen, beside the Dairy Queen, but it IS Dairy Queen. It’s a Dairy Queen Christmas Tree and I find that very odd.
GP: I almost need a Dairy Queen Christmas Tree now.
ML: I want one right now.
GP: …So it’s not a charity in the parking lot on behalf of—
ML: —No. They’re Dairy Queen Christmas Trees.
GP: [laughs] I’m just going to keep asking in different ways. So now we’ve talked about ice preferences…I’ve always wanted to go to a convention, but I hate crowds so *laughs*. I’ve also always wanted to cosplay. Have you guys ever cosplayed before?
RP: I would, but I haven’t. It’s a lot of effort. I wouldn’t mind walking around in the costume, but the effort of making it. [laughs]
GP: I’m wildly impressed with these kids. If I did it, I’d want to do it myself but do it right. I’m a perfectionist. I wouldn’t just paint myself blue and say I’m Mystique. I’d want the body cast and silicone pieces and airbrushing. But who has the time for that.
ML: That’s what blows my mind and I’m glad you say that. I can’t believe how these people consume this stuff. I’m absolutely a fan but I consider myself more the old school fan. I like a comic book once in a while, I like a movie once in a while. I don’t have time to take these things in and I don’t see how people keep up with this stuff. It kind of blows my mind. I respect the shit out of these people and I think what they do is beautiful and amazing. But when I went to that comic book convention, even though I feel they are likeminded folk, I was still kind of like, “How do you do this?! I marvel at you.”
GP: “When do you sleep?!”
ML: Exactly.
RP: I remember you felt out of place in that community. You think of yourself as a big comic book nerd and then you go to there and it’s like, “I can’t keep up.”
ML: I do feel out of place and I don’t keep up with the Joneses whatsoever. But I love it and respect it. I think that’s all that matters really with anything, right. As long as you respect it you can make art around it and for it. It was funny because when the documentary first came up the only famous person I knew was Stephen Amell. So I was like, “Hey Raj, you know what would be a really cool idea, if I got to become a super hero with Stephen Amell.” It was that idea of “I have it in my blood.” I have Wolverine claws tattooed on my knuckles, I’m wearing Batman shoes. I love this stuff and I love the people. It was really cool to be that fanboy. What an amazing experience.
RP: The thing that immediately got traction, was that the Arrow fans found us. They aren’t talking about it like, “Oh there’s this great documentary series talking about all these stories and filmmaking. They’re like, “There’s this series and it has Stephen Amell in it!” It’s cool and it means so much to them. What’s amazing is they broke down every image of him in our series trailer and they examined every frame.
ML: There’s a meme!
GP: Is there really? Oh, you guys have been meme’d!
ML: Well, Stephen’s been meme’d. [laughs]
Ahem, Felicity, ahem.
ML: It’s easy to get excited about and that’s the beautiful part of it.
RP: And I love that we live in an age where if you care about what you’re making and you’re passionate about it there is an audience for it and people are going to care about it and they’re going to love it and talk about it with each other.
ML: True.
RP: It keeps you honest and it constantly reminds you of who you’re telling your stories to and I think that’s pretty cool. You aren’t talking into a vacuum. They’re out there and they’re listening. And when you make a misstep they’ll call you out for it and they should.
GP: I love that filmmakers like Bryan Fuller are engaging with their audiences and live-tweeting their episodes. The idea that you could with be out there talking with your fans about what they liked and didn’t like, I think that’s so cool. The fact that these kids can be like, “Yeah I love this, or yeah I’m going to ship these two people!” —I also love that “ship” is a thing and I know exactly what it means. I had to look that up one day about a year ago.
RP: I actually wrote that down to look that up.
ML: Never heard of it.
GP: I think it comes from “relationship,” and fans will imagine two characters together and create fan-fiction of it. So they’ll say “I ship it” if they’re cool with a relationship or a hopeful relationship.
RP: So the whole Felicity-Arrow thing—people are shipping that.
ML: You would ship that for sure.
GP: It’s all very intense.
RP: Stephen was talking about connecting with his fans too. He loves being able to talk to them. He’s huge on Twitter and he loves being able to talk to his fans.
ML: And I love that he was before all of this. He was blogging when we were on Rent A Goalie. He started this blog way back in the mid-2000s. He’s a really good writer! This was way before Arrow. He’s legit. His heart’s in it and he’s been in it for a long time.
GP: If you guys could do another REELSIDE, what would you do?
ML: Pro wrestling. For sure. When I grew up it was superheroes or wresting. And James Heaslip [REELSIDE cinematographer] would knock it out the park—he’s also a crazy pro-wrestling fan. Bret “The Hit Man” Hart would be my main character in it because he’s my hero. I don’t know what specifically in pro-wresting but talk about gimmicks. I love very specific gimmicks and pro-wresting lends itself to that. Maybe I could try to become a pro-wrestler, which with my stature would be pretty hilarious. To be put in the Sharpshooter by Brett Hart would be pretty unreal. I developed a wrestling move in high school called the Lochner Lock which I think is devastating and I would put it on Brett Hart.
GP: I think this needs to happen!
ML: Agreed!
GP: I want to know a favourite Canadian movie or director or actor that you love. Can-con!
ML: My favourite Canadian easily is Donald Sutherland. Swoooooon. That voice, are you kidding me? And in terms of film, and this sounds like promotion of our series, but Matt Hannam’s episode with Bruce MacDonald and Don McKellar. The best way I put it is that I believe that it should be shown in every single film class across Canada. I think it should be mandatory because it’s so painfully Canadian in the best way. It’s fun because it’s a parody and it’s perfect storytelling.
RP: It’s a meta-Canadian thing.
ML: Ugh, it’s Canadian perfection.
GP: Who is your favourite/the superior Batman.
ML: I want to say Val Kilmer purely based on how the hell did that sneak by their executives. Going back to Brett Hart, he was supposed to play Batman at one point. How bad of a movie would that have been? But Michael Keaton is my real favourite Batman. Who’s your favourite?
GP: Definitely Keaton. Butttt, if I guess if really want to pick a real favourite Batman, I’m gonna go with Steve Coogan and Rob Brydon’s Batman impressions from The Trip.
The Superheroes episode of REELSIDE airs this Thursday for the west coast/best coast, October 8th, at 9pm MT/8pm PT on TMN. Don’t be a goober and miss it now, ya hear? (For all you in Eastern Canada, REELSIDE is on demand right now so what are you waiting for?!) And read the rest of our interviews here: Episode 2: George A Romero, Episode 3: Evan Goldberg, Episode 4: Sci-Fi, Episode 5: Don McKellar and Bruce McDonald.
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